Lesley-Ann Noel is a designer, researcher, and educator. She’s the author of Design Social Change and a co-editor of The Black Experience in Design. Earlier this year, Lesley-Ann was appointed the dean of design at OCAD University and she previously taught at North Carolina State University, Tulane University, Stanford University, and the University of the West Indies. In this conversation, Jarrett and Lesley-Ann talk about the role of design in social change, the value of utopian and abolitionist thinking, and the relationship between designed objects and cultural transformation.