John Ochsendorf is an engineer, educator, and designer. He’s the founding director of the MIT Morningside Academy for Design and has faculty appointments in the departments of architecture and civil engineering at MIT. From 2017-2020, he served as the director of the American Academy in Rome. In this conversation, Jarrett and John talk about Morningside’s goals and how they are spreading design across MIT’s campus, the relationship between design and engineering, and why it’s a good thing that it is so hard to define design.